Hon. C. P. CHATER—I think sufficient reasons have been given for the postponement. Hon. members have stated they did not get these amended copies of the Bill until yesterday afternoon. Your Excellency said we should have time to consider the Bill. True it is we had a Bill some time ago, but the amended Bill only reached us some time ago, and I think a week's postponement won't delay the Bill very much.
His EXCELLENCY—I think nearly all those amendments were referred to one after another at our last meeting, and, as I think was observed by an hon. member of the Council before, hon. members could have taken notes on that occasion. I don't think in any of the amendments there is anything new or anything not mentioned at our last meeting.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I would point out that it is not an amended Bill. There are merely changes which I said Government would be prepared to accept in Committee. Most, if not all of them, came from Dr. Ho Kai, who represented himself as being the advocate, in fact I may say the deputy, of the Chinese community. All the changes which he asked I have made, with the exception of two, so that really it was well known what were the changes asked for and what were the changes which we were ready to make in Committee. There was nothing whatever which bound me to make known these concessions until we got into Committee. As I have already said there is nothing in the rules which compels me to send amended copies of the Bill. I did not make and send them sooner because I really did not consider them so important and necessary. Any one who followed the changes I made one after another at the last meeting could have seen what they were. As I have said before the principal changes are omissions. Apart from the seven or eight clauses to be omitted the changes to be made are really very few. There is no change of principle.
His EXCELLENCY—I certainly do not see the slightest objection to going on with the second reading, and then when we go into Committee on the Bill I can assure you all that there will be nothing unduly hurried. Go through the clauses as steadily as you like, and when it is reasonable that an adjournment should take place or when we come to any difficult clause where consideration is required you will find that the necessary time will be given. Why should we not go on with the business? I was reading only to-day that an hon. member asked, I think it was on 22nd January, when the Public Health Bill was going to be considered, and he said we ought to get on as fast as possible. That was an unofficial member urging us to get on as fast as possible. Well, we do not want exactly to go on as fast as possible, that is, so fast that we cannot duly consider all the clauses of the Bill, but, as I said before, we certainly do want to make some progress, and I cannot see for myself the remotest objection to our going on with the second reading of the Bill.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—Perhaps I may be allowed to suggest a middle course which seems to be open. I believe the motion now before the Council is that the Bill be read a second time. I mention that because we are getting into rather a disorderly meeting, hon. members speaking three and four times successively on the same motion. It seems to me hon. members might well accept the principle of this Bill. The principle is sanitation. They know the Government has withdrawn what formed the greatest ground of opposition—the compulsory provision of backyards. They know the Government has retreated from the compulsory provision of latrines and also from the compulsory provision of space in front of dwellings.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—I rise to order, Sir. I am not aware that the Government has retreated from these provisions.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—As far as this Bill is concerned.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—I beg your pardon.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—Hon. members know also that certain clauses which seem to confer rather arbitrary powers on the Sanitary Board are to be modified and certain definitions which read in rather a sweeping way are also to be modified. Hon. members knowing this might surely accept the principle of the Bill, which is sanitation, and leave all other matters to be discussed in Committee, where there will be ample opportunity. If in addition to this the Government would undertake to have the Bill reprinted—I know there is a legal objection to this which I will refer to directly, but I quite sympathise with the desire of the unofficial members to have a simple, coherent copy of what they are to pass. The objection to this is that the Council should keep to the same Bill that was read a first time and that no alterations should be made before going into Committee. That is the legal course, but it is a very inconvenient one. Certain alterations are agreed to by common consent and it is much more convenient that the Council should have a clear and coherent copy, although words and numbers may have been struck out and certain clauses modified. I think if hon. members will reflect on the fact that most of the things to which they object have been withdrawn from the Bill and if the Government will undertake to have the Bill reprinted and published so that we may go into Committee on a clean copy and not an altered one that course might meet the views of all parties concerned. I suggest it, Sir, in the interests of progress and peace.
His EXCELLENCY asked the hon. member what motion he was speaking on.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—I support the motion of the Attorney-General. I merely suggest that the unofficial members would find that motion more acceptable if the Government would undertake to furnish us with a clean reprint of the Bill as modified before our next meeting.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—In answer to that I have to state that we cannot go into Committee on any other Bill than the one that has been read a first time.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY—I discussed this matter with the Acting Attorney-General and I suggested the printing of a clean copy, but he showed distinctly that in this form hon. members would know exactly what changes the Government had made, whereas if they got a clean copy they would not.
Hon. P. RYRIE rose to address the Council.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—I rise to order. There must be a limit to this. The hon. member has been on his feet half a dozen times.
Hon. P. RYRIE—I am not the only one. Some conversation then took place as to what motion was before the Council.
His EXCELLENCY said the question was that the Bill be read a second time. He had been merely waiting to see if any hon. member had any remarks to make. If no one wished to make any observations he would put the question.
The question was then put and carried without a division.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY moved that the Council do adjourn for a week.
Hon. A. P. MacEWAN—May I ask if the suggestion of the Colonial Treasurer will be carried out and the Bill be printed.
His EXCELLENCY—Most certainly.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—No, Sir. I cannot. We must go into Committee on the Bill as read a first and second time. If the Bill has to be reprinted we must begin again.
Hon. A. P. MacEWAN—Notwithstanding the answer of my hon. friend, I earnestly ask your Excellency on behalf of the public to have that Bill reprinted so that we may know what we are about.
His EXCELLENCY—Well, without compromising ourselves in any way, I will see if your wishes can be legally met, that is, that a clean reprint be sent to you.
Hon. P. RYRIE—There are plenty of precedents for it. Bills have been reprinted again and again.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—As the Bill stands now before the Council it is in a better shape for the members to discuss it than a fresh copy would be, because the alterations are marked in red ink. So far as the public are concerned, they cannot each be furnished with a copy like this, but I would suggest that the Bill might be reprinted for their benefit and the alterations be printed in italics or within brackets. That would give the public the information and let them see what alterations the Government have assented to at the last meeting. The Bill has been translated into Chinese, I understand, and I think there is something to be said for the Chinese having the opportunity of seeing how far the Government has met their views. All the Council has got to do with now is the Bill in its present shape. Those clauses which excited discussion have been relegated to another Ordinance. After all there is nothing new. It is only striking out. Providing for open spaces was mixing up the Sanitary Bill with the Building Ordinance. The Government agreed to amend the Bill by striking out those clauses about open spaces and privies. If the Government will order a certain number of copies of the Bill to be printed with the alterations in italics or brackets and also have a memorandum drawn up in Chinese by the Registrar-General showing ...
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Hou. C. P. CHATER-I think sufficient rez. sons have been given for the postponement. Hon. members have stated they did not get these amended copies of the Bill until yesterday after- un. Your Excellency said we should have time to consider the Bill True it is wa had a Bill some time ago, but the amended Bill only reached us some time ago, and I think a week's postponement won' dalay the Bill vary much.
His EXCELLENCY -I think nearly all those amendments were referred to one after another at our last meeting, and, as I think was obert od by an hou. member of the Council befors, hon. mambara could have taken notes on that occasion. I don't think in any of the amendments thore is anything new or anything not mentionel at our last meeting.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-I would point out that it is not an amended Bill. There are merely chanres which I said Govarumont would be prepared to accapt in Committee. Yost, if not all of thom, came from Dr. Ho Cai, who re. presented himself as being the advocate, in fact I may say the deputy, of the Chinese community. All the changes which he asked I have made, with the exception of two, so that really it was well known what were the changes asked for and what were the changes which we were ready to make ia Committee. There was nothing whatever which bound me to make known these concessions until we got into Committee. As I have already said there is nothing in the rules which com- nals me to send amanded copies of the Bill. did not make and soud them sooner becausA I really did not consider them so important and 30 necessary. Any one who followed the changes I made one after another at the last meeting could have seen what they were. As I have said before the principal changes are omissions. Apart from the sovou or eight clausas to be omitted the changes to be made are really very few. There is no change of principle.
I
His EXCELLENCY-I certainly do not see the slightest objection to going on with the second routing, and then when we go into Committes on the Bill I can assure von all that there will be i nothing unduly burried. Go through the clauses as steadily as you like, and when it is reasonable that an adjournment should take place or when wo cometo any difficult clause where consideration is requirod you will find that the necessary time will be given Why should we not go où with the business? I was reading only to-day that an bon. mamber asked I think it was on 22nd January, when the Public Health Bill was going to be considered, and he said we ought to get on as fast as possible. That was an unofficial mem her urging us to get on as fast as possible. Well, we do not want exactly to go on as fast as possible, that is, so fast that we cannot duly con sider all the clauses of the Bill, but, as I said before, we certainly do want to make some pro- grass, and I cannot see for myself the remotest. objection to our going on with the second read- ing of the Bill.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Perhaps I may be allowed to suggest a middle course which seems to be open. I believe the motion now bofore the Connoil is that the Bill be read a second time. I mention that because we Bra getting into rather a disorderly masting, hon. members speaking three and four times succes- sively on the same motion. It seems to me hon. members might well accept the principle of this Bill. The principle is sanitation. They know the Government has withdrawn what formed the greatest ground of opposition--the corn- pulsory provision of backyards. They know the Government has retreated from the compulsory provision of latrines and also from the compul. sorv provision of space in front of dwellings.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL-I rise to order, Sir, I am not aware that the Government has retreated from these provisions.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-As far as this Bill is concerned.
The SURYAYOR-GENERAL-I beg your par- don.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-Hon. msubers know also that certain clauses which seem to confer rather arbitrary powers on the Sanitary Board are to be modified and certain definitions which read in rather a sweeping way are also to be molifted. Hon. members knowing this might surely accept the principle of the Bill, which is sanitation, and leave all other matters to be dis- cussed in Committee, where there will h· amplo op. portunity. If in addition to this the Government would undertake to have the Bill roprintel-[ know there is a legal objection to this which I will refer to directly, but I quite sympathise with the desire of the unofficial members to have a simple, coherent copy of what they are to pass. The ob-
| jaction to this is that the Council should keep hafora to the samo Bill that was read a first time nd that no alterations should be made before going into Committee. That is the legal course, but it is a very inconvenient one. Certain alter- ations are agreed to by common consent and it is much more convenient that the Council should have a clear and onherent, oopy although words and numbers may have been struck out and our. tain clauses modified. Ithink if hon, members will reflect on the fact that most of the things to which they object bars boon withdrawn from the Bill and if the Government will undertake to have the Bill reprinted and published so that we may go into committee on a clean copy and not an alterad one that coursa might mest the views of Il parties concerned. I suggest it, Sir, in the interests of progress and passe.
His EXCELLENCY asked the hon. member what motion he was speaking on.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-I support the motion of the Attornay-General. I maroly ang gest that the unofficial members would find that motion more acceptable if the Government would undertake to farnish us with a clean re- print of the Bill as modified before our next meeting.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-In an- swor to that I have to state that we cannot go into Committee on any other Bill than the one that has been read a first time.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY-I dis- onssed this matter with the Acting Attorney- General and I suggested the printing of a clean copy, but he showed distinctly that in this form hon. members would know exactly what changes the Government had mads whereas if they got a clean copy they would not,
The on. P. RYRIE rose to address the Conncil.
The COLONIAL, TREASURES-I rise to order. There must be a limit to this. The hou. mem- ber has been on his feet half a dozen times.
Hon. P. RYRIE-I am not the only one. Some conversation then took place as to what motion was before the Council.
His EXCELLENCY said the question was that the Bill be read a second time. He had been merely waiting to see if any hou. member had any remarks to make. If no one wished to make any observations he would put the question.
The question was then put and carried without a division.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY moved that the Council do adjonra for a week.
Hon. A. P. MacEwan-May I ask if the suggestion of the Colonial Treasurer will be car- ried out and the Bill be printed.
His EXCELLENCY-Most certainly.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-No, Sir. I cannot. We must go into Committee on the Bill as road a first and second time. If the Bill has to be reprinted we must bagiu again.
Hon. A P. MACEWEN-Notwithstanding the answer of my hon. friend, I earnestly ask your Excellency on behalf of the public. to have that Bill reprinted so that we may know what we are about.
His EXCELLENCY-Wall, without compro- mising ourselves in any way, I will see if your wishes can be legally met, that is, that a clean reprint be sent to you.
Hon. P. RYRIR-There are plenty of proce- dents for it. Bills have been reprinted agaiu and again.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-As the Bill stands now bafore the Council it is in a better shape for the members to discuss it than a fresh copy would be, because the alterations are mark- ed in red ink. So far as the, public are concern- ed, they cannot each be furnished with a copy like this, but I would suggest that the Bill might be reprinted for their benefit and the alterations bo printed in italics or within brackets. That would give the public the information and let them see what alterations the Government have assent- od to at the last meeting. The Bill has been tran- slated into Chinese, I understand, and I think there is something to be said for the Chinese having the opportunity of seeing how far the Go- vernment has met their views. All the Council has got to do with now is the Bill in its present shape. Those clauses which excited discussion have been relegated to another Ordinance. After all there is nothing new. It is only striking Providing for open spaces was miring up the Sanitary Bill with the Building Or dinance. The Government agreed to amend the Bill by striking out those clauses about open spaces and privies. If the Government will order a certain number of copies of the Bill to be printed with the alterations in italics or brackets and also have a memorandum drawn up in Chinese by the Registrar-Geueral showing
out.
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